DCRT / Walkway / HVRT..........etc

[burtondogs]

Jeez.....that didnt take long..

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20131110/NEWS04/311100010/Rail-trail-connections-raise-tensions-between-bikers-walkers

I didnt see anyone ripping at dangerous speed when I was there, but apparently bikers are getting a bad rap.

[MattD]

We'll be forced back out onto the roads, where if you get hit by a car
you'll be blamed,even if your injured.
Next they'll be kicking us out of the woods !

[chiefmatesam]

I read that article. They seemed to fail to mention that people on the rail trail and walkway seem to like to walk abreast 3, 4, 6, or 8. Makes it difficult to get around them...then when we politely ring a bell or say approaching on your left, they get pissy. Unfortunately, it's always the cyclist's fault. That being said, I think some courtesy on the part of more cyclists could go a long way...like letting people know your approaching them and give them plenty of room. And slowing down on the walkway when it's busy...I've been buzzed by people going WAY to fast over the bridge.
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Studies have shown that riding a bicycle everyday makes you more awesome than the general population.

[burtondogs]

I didn't notice any bad attitude's torwards me...
I was extra cautious & courteous .
.everybody i saw was very friendly ...

Crossing the Walkway on a Sat/Sun afternoon gets very crowded.
I could see there being problems if riders are flying thru there.

I gotta find my bell....

[chiefmatesam]

I haven't seen any towards me either, as I try and be as courteous as possible. I have had walkers be not courteous and crowd the path. It's those folks who give me dirty looks (and I'm going SLOOOOOW), and complain about cyclists. However, there are people that fly by at dangerous speeds. I honestly wouldn't be against posting speed limits on the walkway and the rail trail (maybe with the caveat of posted speed limits when pedestrians present). They have them on bike paths on Long Island.

That being said, they should have signs posted and create rules as well for pedestrians if they impose rules on the cyclists.

I need to dig up my bell too...
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Studies have shown that riding a bicycle everyday makes you more awesome than the general population.

[Jesse845]

The Brooklyn Bridge has separate lanes for walkers and bikers. The walkway was supposed to be set up that way but it never happened.

[slave2bacon]

I spend a lot of time riding on the walkway riding with my 3 yr old. Many many bikers do ride too fast, dont warn when approaching from behind and honestly do not ride in a courteous way. Most of them are people that ride their bikes a few times a year, or are teens.

Truth be told, the walkway is really a walking bridge and is not a great place to ride your bike at more than 10 mph most of the time. I'd be happy with a speed limit.

[TriassicDoc]

Is there any discussion right now to try to figure out what would work best for the walkway? I can talk to people from the Trails Council to see if there is money for signage. I am not opposed to having a speed limit. There are lots of small children on the walkway and I'd hate to see someone getting hurt because of a miscommunication or misunderstanding of the rules. In my opinion, there really should be a speed limit and it should be enforced somehow during busy times. If you are 1 of 3 people going across the walkway on a sunny, but cold day, then go ahead and break the sound barrier, but there really should be some rules for heavy traffic times. It would be nice if everyone could be naturally courteous, but unfortunately a lot of people disrespect others and feel they have a right of way.

[MattD]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20131113/COLUMNISTS03/311130005/Froma-Harrop-Growing-bicycle-culture-complicating-commuting

I read this as a positive , discussion is good.
Frowning negativity is bad.

[TriassicDoc]

there is a huge need for bike specific infrastructure so that cyclists and cars do not have to travel together. A lot of people say they would bike commute more (including myself!!!) if they were not terrified of their route. My route in Albany was particularly bad. Every time legislation to build bicycling specific routes has come up, it has been shot down. It is incredibly discouraging and another reason to pay attention to what your local legislators are doing and to write to them with your specific concerns--believe me, they read those messages. They also cannot do anything if they do not know that the problem exists or is significant.

It might also help to get the NY Bike Coalition involved with your concerns--that is what they are there for and they are extremely well-connected politically and also incredibly knowledgeable.

[Tim845]

A speed limit makes good sense for the Walkway but not the rest of the rail trail!

There are long spans where you have plenty of room to pass, completely different from the Walkway.
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Pedal, b*tches!!

[edgeworker]

Road bikers trying to get a workout on the trail/bridge is a very bad mix with pedestrians. Especially with kids or dogs. Groups of bikers are worse. I rode the trail weekly this summer and have been waiting for this to happen. Slower speeds may be the only good answer.

[chiefmatesam]

I'd have to agree with Dean on this one - road bikers trying to get a workout on the rail trail. Just not a good idea...I know I ride it as a cool down...I'll take it up to 20 mph when no one is around, but slow it down to less than 15 mph when ppl are present (and even slower when kids/pets are around). I'm not sure how effective it would be, but I still think it could be feasible for a speed limit on the rail trail when pedestrians are present. This way it does get people to slow down when passing or meeting pedestrians. Walkway definitely needs a speed limit.
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Studies have shown that riding a bicycle everyday makes you more awesome than the general population.

[TriassicDoc]

I agree that more can be done to clarify the rules of the walkway and the rail trail, and to make it safer for multi-users. I sent a message to Ivan Vamos, the vice chair of the NYS Trails Council and also the (other) road cycling rep (I am one of the road cycling reps on the council) to see if there has already been a discussion about this and to see if I can get more information or if there is anything we can do to make the rules more clear for all users and to increase safety. I will forward the response and continue to look into this issue. Please post up if you can think of any ideas!

[oh_blinding_light]

One way to deal with problems like this is to teach by example.

When passing pedestrians, don't just yell "On you left" and fly past.

Ring your bell (if you have one), from a decent distance (30 ft. or more) so as not to startle, then let folks know you are there by saying something like "Pardon me, I'd like to pass on your left side" (just start talking if you don't have a bell). I don't really like bells, I used to patrol Mohonk with one but found most people would jump when they heard one, the sound of a voice is less alarming.

There have been crowded weekends I've hiked at Minnewaska where some biker yelled "On your left (old fart)!" (the old fart part being implied by tone of voice) and flew by 6 inches to my left. I had to resist the urge to put my left elbow out at the height of a biker's chin. Try to think "If I was a pedestrian how would I like to be passed by a cyclist?" when passing. If you give folks some warning they will usually get out of your way. Be sure to thank dog walkers who reign in their dog.

Slow way down when passing, maybe 5 to 10 mph. Say something friendly like "Nice day for a walk", you will usually get a friendly response. Give folks a wide berth, and if they move way to the side to let you pass make a joke like "Woah, I don't need that much room" or glance at your watch and say "Relax its been over 2 hours since I ran over a pedestrian"". Smile so they see you're joking.

The whole idea behind this is to let pedestrians know not all cyclists are asshats, and to teach other cyclists who observe you what works. This doesn't help with clueless power walkers wearing earbuds while listening to their iDevice (tm) or with idjits who want to ride as fast as possible on a multiple use path, but as my Dad used to say, "You can't fix stupid".

I really don't favor imposing a bunch of rules on a public resource. Signage that reminds people they share this trail with other users often works. It can get kind of lengthy to explain all the issues on a single sign, so sometimes there need to be signs directed at each user group. And a speed limit on the bridge may be worth posting, but maybe something flexible like "Speed Limit 10 MPH if other trail users present". Many years ago I served on the steering committee of the Springwater Corridor in Portland, OR. To my knowledge the current 20 plus miles of paved rail trail don't have a posted speed limit for any users. It does have signage reminding users that they share the trail with many other user groups. It seemed to work well the last few times I've been back to ride the corridor. It takes time for various user groups to learn to accommodate each other. I'd go with suggestions first before imposing rules and fines.
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Nimium est melior!

[pinklewurst (tschneller)]

I recently rode from the ballfield in Highland all the way to Hopewell Junction and back on a road bike. No issues and some high speeds but it was a Thursday afternoon. Typically I go slow over the walkway and verbally announce my pass. " Hi, On your left" usually does the trick.
The Brooklyn Bridge model is best, as previously stated. One part of the walkway should have a dual bike lane. I have had a few encounters where you are riding along really slow and passing walkers who suddenly decide to alter their stride, turn, head for the rail. WTF? inconsiderate of anyone whether riding running or rollerblading.
I was riding over the Brooklyn bridge on a Sunday, which was really busy, and I followed a huge dude that looked like he played football. Whenever a walker drifted into the bike lane he would yell out "BIKE LANE, What is WRONG with you?!" It was pretty funny to see Korean and German tourist jumping out of the way. For the most part people understood the situation and had no problem.
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Definition of Stinky: My gloves!

[oh_blinding_light]

I find a "Hi, I'd like to pass on your left, if that's alright" ruffles less feathers. Not everybody understands "On your left", especially tourists.

I like a separately striped bike lane, but yelling at folks seldom improves cyclist pedestrian relations, even though I totally understand the desire.

When it's crowded on trails, we cyclists need to slow down, pedestrians typically have the right of way. But if there is signage advising pedestrians that cyclists use the path also, I have no problem pointing that out to groups that walk 6 abreast. Just remind them how annoying it is to wait behind a cyclist while driving on a narrow curvy country road. Most folks get the message.
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Nimium est melior!

[TriassicDoc]

I think here we are preaching to the choir a little--we are all pretty experienced and know what to expect from different types of people we see on the rail trail and walkway, so if I'm passing some old dude (ha ha!) I might smile real big and say something like "Hey How's it going?!" so he knows I'm there and I'm friendly. Sometimes tourists are jumpy and freak out when they see you pass them jump towards you instead of away, but since I ride horses I can deal with this nicely.

The people who really need the signage and more--clear and very simple--instruction are those who ride their bikes a couple of times a year, have no helmet, and no speedometer/cyclometer, and are just uninformed in general. I think a clear and friendly sign can go a long way, and this is supported by others who have worked on large multi-user trails such as sections of the Finger Lakes Trail and the Erie Canal trail. So, I am trying to contact people to maybe set up a committee for the spring to figure out what the best way to implement guidelines and teach common courtesy along the new rail trail and along the walkway.

It is not possible to enforce rules because of laws and regulations that would require rental police officers which is super super expensive and leaves a huge amount of liability, but it's really easy to come up with some signage, apply for a PTNY grant or something similar to hire a graphic designer to work together to come up with a great way to educate trail users without being an encumbrance. NYS DEC/OPRHP actually has a sign making person in its employ and printing certain types of signs might be free of charge to the Walkway (and at DEC trails, for further reference).

[edgeworker]

I have found the answer, at least for me anyhow. The Pugsley with Black Floyd tires @30psi..Better workout at slower speeds. Fun. Fat tires to ride any where on the trail (dirt, grass, sand, etc) if something/someone jumps out on you. Fun. I rode 1600 miles (hard) this summer (in flip flops) on the trail and evert time I passed someone they were too amazed at the bike to get pissy. It is a smile producer..I did take notice that most people do not like groups of road bikers with the hammer down. The Pugs with the hammer down is good for ~15 to 18mph pushing a big gear for my workout. I've had it up to 30mph for short bursts, though that hurts.

[masterofnone]