frame size and the 29er question

[exbmxer]

I know the swap is coming up, but I've been anxious to ride and so I've been looking at used bikes (anything decent) and new 29er hardtails < $1,000. I'm a bit mystified by two things though, and I wanted to check my impressions about them and see if they make sense to anyone.

So, the first thing is sizing. I've been happily riding a "medium" for years, but apparently a "small" is still appropriate for my height and weight (5'7", 155 lbs). The one that I tried felt fine on the street and hopping up onto the sidewalk a few times, but I wonder if it will feel cramped after riding for a couple hours, or slow me down when I'm trying to keep up with everyone on their 29ers - is this a real concern?

Second, on the 29er question... I've ridden a couple in a bike shop parking lot and on some grass, but haven't had the opportunity to ride one on the trail. I like the idea of going faster and rolling over obstacles easier, but I also like to hop up onto logs and ledges and jump my bike over rollers and stuff. I'm not doing that all the time, especially after hours of riding, but I do like to "play". So, I'm wondering if the extra size and weight in the 29er wheels becomes really noticeable when you try to ride that way.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, stories, or ridicule.

[tom church]

While size is massively important, look at the geometry of the bike as well. If you like to play and jump and roll, etc, a slacker and shorter bike will be better. Most 29ers have 70-71 deg head tubes, long top tubes and long wheelbases. That is great for cranking and for efficiency but not so good when pointed downhill or for getting off the ground. There is a reason most AM bikes are in the 68 deg head tube angle with shorter top tubes and wheelbases. DH and FR bikes are even slacker.

Look into 29ers that are more playful. Kona, Transition, Rocky Mtn., Yeti and a few others make them.

The only problem you are going to face is that they are more $$ than basic 29ers and they are pretty new to the market so there will not be many used ones.

Give me a call at the shop this weekend if you have more questions!

Tom
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Tom Church

[HVmtb]

Hi exbmxer,

I picked up a Giant XtC 29er last august and have had a blast on it! I'm 5-8 and the small fit me much better than the medium i ride on a 26.

This bike's geometry is for racing & fast trail riding, and I def had to get used to the steeper head angle (71) for some of the tech stuff in the HV. For example, I can now rail everything at 909 on it and not think twice, but i took it to the parking lot side of Ninham and struggled with the tech stuff there (part of that was the hardtail too).

Since you know your riding style, I'd say keep researching, demo as much as possbile and keep saving the $ for next bike

-Jim
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Jim

www.HVmtb.com

The bicycle is a curious vehicle. Its passenger is its engine. ~John Howard

[pinklewurst (tschneller)]

Not sure if this will help... I'm 6' 3" and the xl 29er felt like the first bike to actually fit me. But I did jump on an old 26er the other day and it felt quick. It certainly did not roll over stuff like the big wheel but it was just quick off the line and around the trees. I could get it up in the air a little easier too.
I've read alot of free riders don't like the big wheels as much because they can't flick them around as easy. I think you need to get a 29er out on the stuff you normally ride. I love mine but like I said I'm tall and not jumping off much stuff.
The 29er also climbs the short grunt hills better because of the larger footprint.
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[masterofnone]

The steeper head angles look steep on paper, but in reality a 70ish degree HA on a 29er rolls down steeps more like 26er with a 68ish HA. I understand the first bikes handled terribly, but the newer 29ers are riding closer to 26ers addressing a lot of the old complaints. My two kona '9ers have wheelbases that are the same as my freeride and downhill bike and handle similarly. They're stable in chunder and handle similarly in turns but bunnyhopping over rocks and logs takes more effort, popping off rocks is the same on any bike. A hardtail '9er is still a hardtail, it won't magically ride like a pillow and would be very challenged on the super techy stuff at ninham. But as an example, riding across the many chunky rock wall crossings at lippman park is a point and shoot affair, my singlespeed hardtail '9er plows through them and rolls all the log rides with a yawn, although I haven't ridden devil's drop and the jump trail on it. The new kona satori should be perfect for that stuff and everything at ninham and blue mountain, like a '9er on steroids, I can't wait to test ride one.

[tom church]

Soon...
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Tom Church

[exbmxer]

Thanks for the comments, all. Going to ride a stiff tail 29er this week.

[exbmxer]

I ended up finding a 2011 Trek Mamba 29er for a pretty reasonable price. Took it out at Shaupeneak the other day and was pretty amazed at the grip on short, steep climbs. I thought I'd be lumbering along, but for the most part, it feels like a regular mtn bike, but better. I feel more confident, more in control. The slow tech stuff was a little difficult, but honestly I don't know if that was the bike or my rusty skills. Speeding up a bit took care of some of that, if a little nerve-wracking. In the end, though, it was a thrill to take on a piece of technical at a speed part of me was saying is too fast, but still come out alright. I also tried to speed up a bit more before the climbs, but even when I didn't I couldn't believe how much I could lean onto the pedals, even out of the saddle, and good things were still happening. All in all, I'm sold on the 29er.

[exbmxer]

I ended up finding a 2011 Trek Mamba 29er for a pretty reasonable price. Took it out at Shaupeneak the other day and was pretty amazed at the grip on short, steep climbs. I thought I'd be lumbering along, but for the most part, it feels like a regular mtn bike, but better. I feel more confident, more in control. The slow tech stuff was a little difficult, but honestly I don't know if that was the bike or my rusty skills. Speeding up a bit took care of some of that, if a little nerve-wracking. In the end, though, it was a thrill to take on a piece of technical at a speed part of me was saying is too fast, but still come out alright. I also tried to speed up a bit more before the climbs, but even when I didn't I couldn't believe how much I could lean onto the pedals, even out of the saddle, and good things were still happening. All in all, I'm sold on the 29er.

[chiefmatesam]

I'd have to agree with you about the 29'er climbing...I demo'ed a Niner few weekends ago (RIP 9 and RDO Jet 9). Bikes climbed liked mountain goats...even in very muddy conditions. I couldn't believe how easily the bikes almost "floated" over roots and small rocks. I had heard that as you speed up, they become less nimble, which I did find as well. I didn't like that part of the 29'er, as I love to blast down hills as fast as I can. I tried a Cannondale Jekyl Carbon bike 26'er, which was WAY more nimble and much faster, more confidence inspiring to go faster and huck off jumps than the 29'er was. It almost climbs as well as a 29'er (almost, but not quite). Not sure what the 29'er folks have to say about their experiences bombing down curvy steep down hills, but that was my experience. Really leaning towards the Jekyll myself.
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[fallen angel]

Any of you try going about on a 27.5 yet? I didn't like the 29er's back when I tested as I like the agility of a 26. The 27.5 seems like it should make for a good compromise.
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[stevelei]

I've ridden for almost a year on both 29er and 27.5 (650b). Also Pugsley and 26er. The 27.5 wheel size is very promising. You can flick the bike around, it's quick to accelerate and does well on short steep climbs. On downhills and rolling through the trail the 27.5 wheels to some effect are similar to the 29er going over roots and rocks. More stable than the 26" but if you like to pump, jump, manual, and handle the bike more, then the 27.5 will handle the task similar to a 26er. Also fairly quicker than 29er on the twisties.
Think of 29ers as more like a ride on road bikes: less about play, and more about cadence. Sometimes you'll air and style your road bike going over a rail road crossing but most likely not too often. It's more about momentum and keeping pace. I like the 29er for more open courses or when I'm doing road/off-road rides. Lock out the shocks on the road and move, approach the trail head unlock and fly.

Best thing is to try stuff out and also evaluate what type of rider you are and the places you will be riding most.

When I asked Trek if they will be offering a 27.5 the rep laughed and said wait until Trek World in August! hmmmmm....

I'm using Strava (a cycling app that tracks and records your rides) to do a comparison of each wheel size including the Pugsly to see how they perform on different trails, climbs and whatever other stuff is encountered.
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Best
Steve
Revolution Bicycles
190 Main Street
Saugerties, NY 12477
845-246-1492
www.revolutionbikesny.com

[chiefmatesam]

Steve - your description of the 29'er hits the nail on the head on how I felt about 29'ers. I couldn't really put it in words...just that the 26'er is FAR more playful (and in my opinion) fun. But then again, I love blasting down hills, jumping, taking the twisties fast (much to my wife's chargrin).

Never heard of a 27.5 though...sounds interesting.
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[Forest_biker]

The problem with any categorization of how a 29er or a 26er handles, is that most don't take into account the rider's size.

I'm 6' 1" with a long inseam, my center of gravity is a bit higher than most people's.
Since the late 90's I've ridden rigid, hardtails, full suspension all with frame sizes from 19 to 21. Big bike frames with 26" wheels. My bikes have always looked frame heavy.

Now I'm on a 29er hardtail, a 21" frame. I guess this is what a rider who is 5'10" feels like riding a 18" hardtail, right?

It feels great in the tough technical stuff and the smooth trails too. In fact it's the first time a bike has felt like it was the "right," size...balanced is more like it.

Smaller riders I agree may find the larger wheels harder to handle in some conditions, just like I might feel that a 26er on a bigger frame can feel twitchy in the rough stuff.

[chiefmatesam]

Not to say anyone is right or wrong, because I think a lot of it is personal preference...I'm 6-4, with my fat rear-end tipping the scales at 235 these days, 34" inseam...but still preferred the 26'er to the 29'er. From my point of view, difference felt like driving a Chevy Suburban (29'er) versus a Jeep Wrangler (26'er) to me. To be absolutely sure though, I'm test driving a Kona Sartori on Saturday from Beacon Cycles. After I buy this new bike, will probably be 2-3 years before I can get another one...

My only suggestion to anyone who's trying to decide is to test drive as many bikes as you can before you can buy, and do it on the same trails so you can get a good comparison. And again, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong...I honestly think it's all personal preference. If I do get a 26'er, next bike will definitely be a 29'er hardtail though!
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Studies have shown that riding a bicycle everyday makes you more awesome than the general population.