On the night trail

[joshuacoyote]

The winter woods are deep and dark, and can be a bit intimidating on the tues night rides for some.
Back in my wilderness instructing days, we would organize hiking groups and travel safely through the back country by always keeping the person BEHIND you in sight.
I think that adapting this awareness would keep the night rides a bit more compact and safer, especially if one or two people gets dropped off the back, and or loses the trail, and then the rest of the ride is wondering when or where this might have happened.

As long as you can see the light of the rider behind you, all is well. This would avoid the slinky effect, with the leaders far out of touch with the end of the group. If someone does have a mechanical, or is injured, they can know that the group isn't riding away and leaving them in the dark, and it won't be (possibly)several minutes before someone realizes that they are no longer with the group.
Josh

[bikejunkie]

I agree with you Josh. I believe that that is the true intent of the group rides although, I know they do get spread out. I often find myself pushing faster, trying to chase down the person in front of me, which tends to make you forget about the person in behind you. In general though I think we are all pretty good about stopping often to regroup especially with larger groups. I find with smaller groups we tend to cover a lot of ground fast with fewer stops and this could leave the last rider far behind. Point taken.

[g60dude]

Josh, you make it sound like you have been left in the woods alone. I ride with a few different groups and I think the Fats in the Cats group rides are the most courteous ride out there. The Fats ALWAYS stops at every interection and if there ever is someone that falls back due to mechanical, injury, etc., someone ALWAYS goes back to find them. I don't feel a person that is riding slower suggest that everyone else ride to his or her pace. If that's the case, than none of us will improve on our riding. I think all of us can say we are amazed of what and how we ride now compared to when we first started. We've gotton to this point by pushing ourselves, pushing to keep up with that faster rider. I've been on other group rides where you better keep up or you may lose the rest of the people. I think in spring time, its a given that the group rides are slower. It's just to make sure everyone has a chance to get back in shape. But come this time of the year, end of the season, when most people have their legs and cardio back, it should be expected that the pace will be faster than the beginning of the season. For me, if someone is in front of me, no matter where in the pack I am, I will do whatever it takes to keep that person in front of me in sight. That in itself will make you a better rider.

If I recall, didnt Fats in the Cats offer another ride, other than Tuesday that was considered a "beginner" ride. If anyone feels that the current Tuesday ride is pushing the limits, maybe next spring we need to start up that other ride again.

Also, I know other riders who have stopped doing the Tuesday night rides because they feel the pace is too slow....... Maybe come spring time, we need to set up another night that we can consider a little faster pace.
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greg

[mike stopski]

I've been quiet until now, but I have been pretty disappointed the last few days over being left behind on part 2 of the Christmas Ride.

Admittedly, I was one of the last few in the bar, cleaning up pizza mess and containers from the snacks "my girl" and I brought, and waited for her to return from "last trip" to ladies room with a group, and before I knew it, everyone was splitting before we were on our bikes.

I commend Scott Buley for trying to stay between two groups so we wouldn't get dropped, but unfortunately for him as well, by the time we turned at Deisings all were gone.

Having no clue where the ride was headed, we 3 rode for about an hour, never catching sight of the group again. Phone calls to several bars, as well as to several friends offered no luck, and after driving around for 1/2 hour with bikes on my car, I bailed.

Disappointed. Needless to say, I did not finish my ride smiling this night.

[GoneToTheDogs?]

Sorry that you were not able to continue on after the pizza stop Mike. I believe that everyone did their best to keep the group together throughout the ride. It seemed to me that people were very cognizant of where others were until much later when some people began to disperse to go home. Given the fact that quite a few people intentionally left after Keegans for other commitments, there really was no way to know that some folks were not present when we departed on our bikes. I, for one, had no way of knowing that individuals who were not present intended to continue on with the group. We were actually only 2 blocks from Deisings dropping off gifts for kids at a local shelter and we came back out pretty much the same way.

[bikejunkie]

Mike, I can assure you that we did not intentionally leave you behind. With that many people, it is very hard to keep track of who is there and who is missing. by the time we were done with pizza I was lucky to know where I was let alone keep track of anyone else. Anyway, on behalf of the group, I applogize.

[joshuacoyote]

Greg-


No, i have not been left alone in the woods....but I recognize the potential for a lack of overall comminucation to have negative effects on such a situation.


I am NOT SAYING that Fats rides are not considerate , and that we don't always stop to regroup, I am saying that when the front gets totally out of touch with the back, there is potential for problems, especially at night in the cold.

Also- I agree that at this point in time, we should all be stronger riders. The pace has picked up. It is the ones who want to accept the additional perameters that night riding offers that are coming out. However, the "keep up or don't come " attitude is not what this ride is about,
Just because you are keeping track of the person behind you, it doesn't mean that that person isn't also pushing to keep his or her pace up as well. NO one is happy to think that they are holding up the entire group.

Incidently, it was i who started the B ride, and the beginner ride two years ago- but the B ride faltered when I cracked a rib. Last summer, i was not able to make time for a beginner ride- and there was not that much interest in it.
Josh

[raybag]

Josh,

I don't think Greg is saying "keep up or don't come". I think he feels that we all have had a long summer of riding and everybodys fitness has risen to a higher level. To ride at the pace of the slowest rider would be defeating the purpose of working so hard to raise that fitness level. That being said, the Fats ride has always encouraged all levels of riders for the Tuesday rides with the idea that we would always regroup at trail intersections. We still do that, even on the night rides. And, I hope, we never chastise or otherwise abuse the slower rider for...being slower. Somebody has to be last. That's just the way it is. It used to be me at one time, and probably Greg, Suzanne, Kevin,..etc.

I understand your concern for problems when the group gets strung out but the front riders are never more than just a few minutes away, on any trail. This past Tuesday Mary fell and the group noticed that she was no longer with them. In just a few minutes Young Kevin Young had made his way back to her to see if she was okay.

I also think that, speaking for myself, most of us are probably not as prepared as we should be for night riding. How many of us carry spare lights or even a small flashlight in case your main light dies? I know that Doug does, he had to use it two weeks ago. Even a little Mag light can help get you out of the woods if your light dies.
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C'mon!!

[g60dude]

I understand the Tuesday night rides are a social ride. And I never meant to come across as this ride is a "keep up or don't come " . But at the same time, I don't feel I need to slow my pace down and make sure the person behind me is with me the whole time. This pass Tuesday's ride at Jockey Hill we started on Closer to the Edge. I went into the trail second behind SheKing. That night the pace on the Edge was one of the fastest times I ever rode it and I still had all i could do to keep up with her.........I loved that challenge. The last thing I'm gonna do at that point is make sure the person behind me is keeping up with me. What I'm saying Josh, is we all ride for different reasons. I just don't think its fair to ask a person to change their riding style to accommodate another's. Especially knowing we will all be regrouped at the next intersection.
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greg

[bikejunkie]

PLAY NICE KIDS! It is the general practice of the group rides to count how many there are before we start the ride. I know of riders who have been scolded for seperating or leaving the ride without telling anyone. If anyone is left behind, the group is never more than a few minutes away. We are all aware of who is behind and all willing to go back and look for others. At night, it is even easier as you can see the lights through the woods for a long ways. This past tuesday, we were at the usual waiting spot at the top of the big hill on "close to the edge", you could see lights coming at least 2 ridges away. You may think your alone but, big brother is watching . On large group rides we typically have a leader and someone to sweap and those two comunicate at each regrouping.

[g60dude]

I agree Junkie, its all about everyone having fun.................So let's have a group hug
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greg

[bikejunkie]

And a few bottles of Kitty!

[shizzle]

MEOW!
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Dont ever look at my name in vain- ODB

[Sheking]

Josh,

Looks like I am the one to blame for the pace on Close to the Edge on Tuesday night. I had just finished my last final and was in heaven to be on my bike, not having to think about anything else but riding. Plus since the weather has been so good we have all been able to keep our fitness level up, so the rides have been moving at a good pace. With that being said, we always regroup many times along the trail and check to see if anyone is missing. If anyone is missing someone always goes back and makes sure everything is ok! I agree a group hug is in order.

Suzanne
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Ride like a grandma!

[trekkie]

come on now.....
just get on your bike and ride
too much thinking if you ask me





please read quote below
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Get out and ride..... you'll love it
group rides are the snizzle !!!!
"mom can you take off my training wheels i want to ride the skinnys"....mini trekkie FTF 2008