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Stravafication (or Wimpification?) of 909
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chiefmatesam



Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493
Location: Poughkeepsie

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Stravafication (or Wimpification?) of 909 Reply with quote

I've noticed lately an increasing amount of ride arounds popping up at 909 this year. Every time I've noticed a ride around, I try and keep it routed in the original direction on the trail using large branches and rocks.

What's the club doing about these ride arounds? One I've been fighting lately is on the way to the top of Bykhed, after the large rock then root combo. It's the obstacle of roots to the right, big rock in the middle, and ride around to the left of the rock right before it crosses the stone wall and makes a 90 degree left turn. I've moved branches and rocks, but to no avail. A few days later someone has moved all of it and cleared the ride around. Are these ride arounds now being sanctioned by the club? I've counted 4 so far (5 including one someone told me about on the way up to Bykhed from the fire road before the rock/root obstacle) on Bykhed, 1 on Snowmobile right after departing the Tyrell Road lot, the usual on Mercury, the little rock drop-off on Whatchamacallit.

I'm not from Long Island, but I've ridden down there a lot as it's something to do when visiting my inlaws. I've seen how dumbed-down trails really effect the quality and fun factor. I do not want to see that happening to the trails that everyone has worked so hard to create and maintain.

I know that there will be someone who calls me an elitist. Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. I've been riding at 909 since I started mountain biking. I walked the stuff I couldn't conquer until I finally had the skills to ride it. Why can't we expect the same of the others that ride there?
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smctigue



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 98
Location: Union Vale

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why improve when you can just make things easier to deal with?
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chiefmatesam



Joined: 28 May 2011
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Location: Poughkeepsie

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true.
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smctigue



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
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Location: Union Vale

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trail modifications that you describe pre-date Strava by many years. I believe my first trip to 909 was about 17 years ago. People were riding around that tricky bit at the entrance of Bykhed way back then.
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Lifeofloon



Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 5
Location: Peekskill

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It happens everywhere. Blue Mountain Reservation has dozens of them popping up all the time.
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Tim845



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3684
Location: Poughkeepsie

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Stravafication (or Wimpification?) of 909 Reply with quote

chiefmatesam wrote:
I've noticed lately an increasing amount of ride arounds popping up at 909 this year. Every time I've noticed a ride around, I try and keep it routed in the original direction on the trail using large branches and rocks.

What's the club doing about these ride arounds?....

....I walked the stuff I couldn't conquer until I finally had the skills to ride it. Why can't we expect the same of the others that ride there?


Byk Hed turns 25 this year. Keeping singletrack single isn't first nature to all of the herd. Props to the pro-active people maintaining... Byk Heds rule!
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GG
Veep


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 907
Location: new splatz

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for using the term 'ride-around' as opposed to some of the sexist terms out there...this chick appreciates it! Very Happy
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Mr. Crowley



Joined: 11 Apr 2015
Posts: 27
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur! Lately I have been pretty sensitive to the blatant misogyny that both sexes employ when they they say something is weak or wimpy by comparing it to a vagina. So I appreciate the language use as well.
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TriassicDoc
El Presidente


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 1235
Location: Poughquag

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 2 schools of thought here--one is that if the line is too technical for most average riders to ride, a ride-around will form because people do not want to get off their bikes. This is a perfectly acceptable way to manage a trail system--why not have 2 options, to allow those who are not confident on the technical line an easier route?

It gets difficult when a lot of people start taking alternate lines because there is no *clear* ride-around option, and this is how trails start to seriously damage the drainage and become widened.

This is something that should be managed, we should not scorn people for never learning how to ride a seriously technical spot--everyone gives it their 150%, and sometimes their 150% is more like your 25%, but they are still really trying and enjoying their time on the trails.

I am all for allowing ride-arounds for technical spots, so long as it doesn't turn into 3+ ride arounds that lead to poor drainage conditions and trail widening and collapse.

So, instead of bullying and being mean to those who just are doing their best, try to be understanding. It's not always about Strava. Everyone has different limits and abilities.
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smctigue



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 98
Location: Union Vale

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was riding up the tower side of Ninham one day. I tried riding up a long, steep rock face and tipped over backwards in the attempt. I've walked it ever since.

I guess we are all different but I would never even consider building a ride around there. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Ride what you can, walk what you can't.
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Bikegeek



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 328
Location: Dropping in...

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ride with people better than you and watch what they do. Ask them how they do it. If you don't clear something go back and try it again. Walk your bike over it and see what the bike does. Your bike will clear almost everything without you on it.........
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chiefmatesam



Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493
Location: Poughkeepsie

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GG - ride arounds are exactly what they are, not what are they calling them "chick lines" or something stupid? I know a number of women who are better riders and could absolutely bury me on a ride. I'm fairly certain you are one of them.

T-doc - I disagree with you on this one. Issue is that these spots tend to get wider and wider over time. It is almost impossible to manage because there will always be someone who can't ride even the ride around. As more and more ride arounds develop, people will get bolder and bolder, and pretty soon they start chopping out roots because they are "too hard" to get over. I've seen what happens when these things run rampant on Long Island. Trails get less and less technical.

I don't mean this post to bully or be mean. However, instead of adapting the trail for a person's ability, why not learn how to ride better and adapt the person's abilities? There is no shame in walking over a section of trail that's too difficult for one's ability. There are sections of Timbuktu (away from Tyrell lot) I can't get over, but I am not chopping the root out that makes it difficult for me. All I ask is that people respect the trails everyone has worked so hard to build and maintain.
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TriassicDoc
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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Location: Poughquag

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just going to add this one elephant in the room: You are turning away a lot of beginner riders and women riders of average skill ability with the attitude that there can never be a go-around.

I consider myself to have above-average skills for most women--I'm not at the top of the list, but I've taken a lot of time to learn stuff and practice stuff. And I have seen a lot of women discouraged because of this attitude that taking an easier line is cheating. I see no reason not to have an easier line if it does not damage the environmental character of the trail--for example, if it does not lead to significant damage or erosion control. You can have 2 lines and still keep erosion controls in place.

This is a general statement and may not apply to all parts of all trails, but it is something to consider.
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chiefmatesam



Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 493
Location: Poughkeepsie

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, why not ride trails that match their skills instead of trails that have many obstacles that are beyond their skills? I take my 10 year old daughter riding at 909, and I make sure not to take her on trails with difficult obstacles so she doesn't get discouraged. Over the weekend, I took a couple of beginner mountain bikers on trails that matched their abilities and we still got in 3 hours of riding. Taking an easier line is far from cheating (which I tell my daughter this). However, creating your own ride around because you don't want to take the time to learn to ride tough obstacles is not. At 2 locations for ride arounds on Bykhead, the trails have gradually grown wider and will continue to do so. This is the problem with letting this act run rampantly.

Example - look at Snowmobile right after you leave the Tyrell lot. You go around the hill to the first obstacle where there a tree and a rock are close. Just this year, I noted that ride arounds around the rock and the tree are starting. First time I rode at 909 I had no problem negotiating. If we let this kind of 2nd and 3rd lines go, pretty soon, you'll be able to drive a 4x4 on the trails because they've gotten so wide.
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pinklewurst (tschneller)



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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Location: Dug ( as in can you dig it?) Hill Rd

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with most stuff said...ride arounds are a bad idea, widening trails etc, but....claiming that folks should simply learn how to "ride better" by following better riders is sounding elitist somewhat. I'm a geezer and have been riding since 1986...I have good days when I clear stuff and days that I don't give two craps about it. I'm not going to get any better. Maybe post some difficulty signs and let folks know which are the tricky trails. Most new IMBA trails include ride arounds and tricky stuff on the same trail. I also agree that there is no shame in getting off your bike for a second to jump over something.
As far as strava goes....get over yourself and go ride. If you are cutting corners to get a better time against someone else's then you are just a corner cutting cheater....so who cares.
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pinklewurst (tschneller)



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And by the way I'm wearing an original bykhed t shirt while I write this
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Moist



Joined: 15 Mar 2014
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Location: Red Hooker

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL at the notion that women need these "ride around" lines, especially those of "average" skill ability...LOL (oh wait, I already did)

I seriously can't believe that someone thought that out, spent the time typing it, and went on to hit the Submit button Shocked
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Tim845



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...was a reference to so called "Mary Lines" Fred
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paetersen



Joined: 23 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smctigue wrote:
Ride what you can, walk what you can't.


^^^This. All day long.

All the cheater lines are killing a good trail system, and slowly widening and straightening the singletrack. I will continue to block every one find.
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slave2bacon



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 789
Location: Beautiful Ulster Park

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This happens everywhere. At Shaupeneak there are several tough moves where ride-arounds have been made over the years. When needed I will get off my bike and spend a few minutes restoring the original line. That is the local ethic of most riders that I know.

I believe that multiple lines around a hard feature lead to degradation of the overall quality of a riding area. Too many lines are confusing to riders of all skill level and actually make things harder for new riders. Better to work on moves and improve. Session hard moves on a ride with your friends.

There are moves at Shaupeneak that I have been working on for decades and still am 50/50 on.

We all have to get off our bikes sometimes.
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