VPP vs. 4 Bar Linkage

[Methuselah's Goat]

My Dearest Cats,
I do not mean to instigate a debate the likes of Creationism/Big Bang, Republican/Democrat, Chocolate/Vanilla, Hennepin/Rare Vos, or Paper/Plastic.
I only mean to try to educate myself, to eventually work towards a 29er dually purchase. I acknowledge up front, that this ultimately comes down to my own personal preferences and what I am looking to get from my bike. However, I do feel I need to understand the difference between these two categories of suspension systems. Tom Church, I am looking forward to your input, as I know you sell both Intense and Kona. Obviously, these are not the same price points, and can have a plethora of specs. I am just looking for a general idea of what the difference is. I am considering the Santa Cruz Tallboy/Intense Spider vs. Niner Jet 9/Kona Hei-Hei/Ellsworth Evolve. Any input is very much appreciated. Any horror stories or witty anecdotes are also appreciated.
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Ride it like you stole it!

[jamesframes]

oh my!

where are you riding? riding style? level of riding? goals for riding? current set up? height n weight? price range?

My vote, which is very biased, is for a 29er hardtail for overall xc riding. Comfy, good for a long ride, nimble, good power put down, less moving parts.

If you are going to get more burly, enjoy squish, or have limited techy skills-go dual. It allows for a sloppier line, gives the body a break, and if you are riding big stuff, more forgiving and may allow for a bit more speed through it.

I use a 29er hardtail for everything except racing-long, techy, difficult rides...works for my style. I vote hei hei or the niner...I know nothing of the suspension types.

natural selection?
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If I can bicycle, I bicycle.
David Attenborough




Support your LBS-Bicycle Depot New Paltz NY

[Forest_biker]

If I were in your position:

I'd find a good shop/shops where you could demo them on your local trails.

Check MTBR.com for any horror stories on the models I was interested in.
http://www.mtbr.com/reviewscrx.aspx

Then open the wallet and see what possible realistically.
If it's empty, I'd put together a rigid 29er singlespeed out of any used parts I could scrounge, and then claim that a rigid 29 ss is the purest form of biking. (my vote, because empty wallet)

My actual way would be to wait five years and buy the bike off Ebay/craigslist from someone who bought it new and then used it a few times on the local railtrail.

Good Luck.

[masterofnone]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the niner is a vpp type, not a 4 bar. I have never ridden a vpp, but I do have a hei hei 29er, it's a nice bike with a great price tag. If you're looking for a lighter short travel bike for lumpy tech trails it's a great choice. I added beefed up rims last year, stan's flows, and just had Tom Church put on a reba thru axle fork which I have yet to ride, impatiently waiting for the trails to dry a little more. Hopefully I'll hit the trails running when I come back from vaca

[Pokey]

Call Dark Horse Cycles. On April 15th and 16th Niner is bringing up some bikes to demo.

[tom church]

Depends on what you are looking for. We are a Kona Dealer and an Intense Dealer so we know about both.

VPP is great. You get a very active suspension with little to no pedal bob. It really works amazing. But it has it's issues. Squeaks...VPP always squeaks eventually. Maintenance...lots of it. You have to replace those bearings (LOTS of them) every two years or so. If you ride hard...every year. The ride is unmatched though.

Four Bar is a set it and forget it type of suspension. It is not as plush and can be affected by pedal and brake forces. There is almost no maintenance though...oil up the pivots and rebuild them every 3-5 years. With the newer rear shocks pedal bob is a non-issue and with modern frame designs, brake jack is also minimized.

So where do I stand...I am selling my VPP Intense for a 4-bar Kona. Frankly they feel just as good for half the price and with better support. Kona's new Magic Link is only a variation on 4-bar. Simple but it works.

I skip the hardtale rides these days...yes they are more efficient in some ways but they suck in others. On climbs you can actually conserve more energy with a DS because you can stay seated and your wheel will track the terrain for better traction. Plus you get the benefit of faster downhills. Yes they are more simple and more pure to ride...but I like my full squish. Especially on the rocky technical trails around here.

Tom
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Tom Church